Watchman Magazine

I’m a member of the lord’s church.  I’ve been ordering your sermons (www.biblework.com), and it is an honor to receive and view those sermons on the word of God.  I just received the Wilkin / Hafley debate on water baptism.  You most certainly CRUSHED his idea on faith only!

Larry, my wife and I often have discussed the topic of denominational baptism.   We were both baptized in a Baptist church.  At a later time, I came to the understanding that they (the Baptists) were in error, but my wife, on the other hand, feels that she was baptized for all the right reasons.  Although they teach faith only, she says she was baptized for the remission of her sins.  I told her that you could not be taught wrong and be baptized right.

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(Tim Cryer is a local Baptist with whom we had correspondence in the fall of 1999. ["A Baptist On Jeremiah 6:16," and "Baptist Preacher Responds To Our Review." E-mail me if you would like to have a copy of those exchanges]. Mr. Cryer never replied after the second review. However, he has written again. Below are the details about a young lady’s confrontation with "a Church of Christ Cultist on Osage St.")

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COMMON SENSE QUESTIONS A "CHURCH OF CHRIST" PREACHER CANNOT CLEARLY ANSWER

By Pastor David Martin
Solid Rock Baptist Church

David Martin is pastor of the Solid Rock Baptist Church, 5893 Old Brownsville Rd. E, Bartlett, TN 38135 USA; phone: 901-634-1622. He is a 1984 graduate of Pensacola Bible Institute of Florida, and was ordained to the gospel ministry in 1986. He has been in his current pastorate for eight years. His article on the Church of Christ cult is the result of in-depth personal conversation with a Church of Christ elder that led to a 3-day public debate with a Church of Christ evangelist in 1997. The debate was attended by 250 people nightly from within a 300-mile radius of Memphis, Tennessee.This is one of the most controversial articles on the church of Christ you will find anywhere. No church of Christ preacher can satisfactorily answer any of the questions posed by Pastor Martin.

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Under the headline, "Pro-homosexual Church Withdraws from CBF," the following article appeared www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=11536, August 17, 2001.

"University Baptist Church in Austin, Texas, has notified the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF) that they are pulling out of the national group because of its policy against homosexuals, according to a report in The American-Statesman.

"The CBF’s policy prohibits the hiring of non-celibate gays and lesbians, bars them from missionary work and does not allow the organization to give money to homosexual groups or causes.

"’We most deeply regret the condemning message you have sent in the name of Christ to all gay and lesbian persons by your action,’ wrote the Rev. Larry Bethune in a letter from the church Aug. 16. ‘Because it is God’s call for our congregation to minister with gay and lesbian Baptist Christians and their families, we cannot in good conscience support an organization which discriminates against our brothers and sisters in Christ … any more than we could do so if the CBF discriminated on the basis of race or gender,’ Bethune wrote.

"This isn’t the first scrape University Baptist has had over its policy of welcoming homosexuals. The Austin Baptist Association voted to oust the church in 1995 after University Baptist ordained a gay deacon. The Baptist General Convention of Texas’ executive committee voted to end its affiliation with University Baptist in 1998. University Baptist is a member of the American Baptist Churches, U.S.A., a Baptist denomination that continues to debate whether to take a stand on churches that allow non-celibate homosexual members."

Candid Comments

First, how does the average Baptist regard the spiritual status of "the Rev. Larry Bethune" and the "University Baptist Church in Austin"? Are those who endorse and sanction homosexual behavior, such as they do, still in a saved state before God (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)?

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Did you see where Texas Baptists voted against the wife’s subjection to her husband? Well, they did. I have been asked what I thought about it. Here are my comments:

First, it matters not at all how the Baptists or any other sect votes on any issue or doctrine. All the edicts of all the ecclesiastical bodies of the all the earth count for nothing and mean even less. What is changed by their vote? Are the resolutions of men bound upon the word of God? Can they alter what God has said? No, not one syllable! As Jeremiah said when men sought to challenge and change the word of God, “all…shall know whose words shall stand, mine, or theirs” (Jer. 44:28).

Second, does Ephesians 5:21-33 still teach that men are to unselfishly sacrifice themselves for the good of their wives and to love their wives as their own bodies (5:25-28)? Does the text still say that men are to love their wives and surrender their lives on her behalf (5:25-29, 33)? Does the passage say that the wife is to submit to her husband “as unto the Lord” (5:22)? Do those verses still say the wife is to be subject to her husband as the church is subject to Christ (5:23, 24)? If so, what does the Baptist vote mean with respect to our duty before God (“Study to show thyself approved unto God,” not unto the Baptists!)?

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Under the title, A Baptist On Jeremiah 6:16, we reviewed an article published in THE BAYTOWN SUN, August 1, 1999. Tim Cryer, author of the article, and the preacher at the Victory Baptist Church, Baytown, TX, has now replied. His response appears below.

Dear Mr. Hafley, Thank you for responding to my article. I will get right to the point. I know all about what you teach and believe. I was raised in the Church of Christ; I was baptized at Cedar Bayou when I was 11 by a man named Roy Calma. I have attended your church as well as Missouri Street. All of my family is Church of Christ. My parents are members of Lakewood. I said all that to say this: It is a wicked and false doctrine in which you are involved. My Bible tells me in 2nd John, v. 9, 10, how to deal with people who teach false doctrine.

I believe water baptism is very important in a Christian’s life, but it plays no part in salvation. I know the moment I was born again, and water baptism had nothing to do with it. It is an act of obedience, an external picture of what happened to you on the inside when you get saved.

The difference between us is what Christ did at Calvary. For me, the blood he shed is sufficient to take me to heaven. My salvation is done. For you, he had to die that awful death, and then you have to get baptized, and then you have to work to keep your salvation. You teach that man has a part in God’s plan of salvation. Man never has and never will have a part in God’s plan of salvation.

My objective is not to argue and debate, because nobody will get saved. I am not going to change your mind, and you are not going to change my mind. My objective is to see lost sinners come to Jesus. Will you join me in telling as many as we can that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, (and) that the only way to heaven is through the blood of Jesus?

Mr. Hafley, you are not my enemy. I love you and so does Jesus. Please ask him to show the truth before it is too late.

God Bless You,

Bro. Tim

Reply To Mr. Cryer’s Letter Dear Tim,Thank you for your courteous reply. I do not consider you to be a personal enemy of mine, either. Surely, we shall both be able to speak plainly and forthrightly without bitterness (2 Tim. 2:24). Since Paul was able to speak the gospel “with much contention,” yet remain “gentle,” and holy in behavior, so shall we (1 Thess. 2:2, 7, 10).

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In THE BAYTOWN SUN, 9/1/99, under the headline, “Christians must get back to the old paths,” Tim Cryer, “a lay minister at Victory Baptist Church,” commented as follows:

Jeremiah 6:16–”Thus saith the Lord, stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein.”

This great country is a mess today because Christians have traded in the old paths of old time religion for new paths that are not getting the job done. God said in the above verse to ask for the old way, for it is a good way, and walk in this way. The old ways are what made this the greatest nation in the world and is what made our churches Holy and different from the world. But sometime back in the 1960s, parents stopped passing down the old ways to their kids, and started giving them the new ways.

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Recently, a brother wrote and posed the following for consideration:

I am…getting ready to send propositions to an Independent Baptist in Lewisburg, TN. He is on the radio station down there and has been preaching hot and heavy against baptism, saying it was “Satan’s doctrine”….He has said, “The Campbellites have sent more people to hell than any other group.” A fellow down there heard me in the debate in November and asked if I’d debate this fellow, and I said I would. Anyway, I’m planning on sending some propositions and then taking it from there.

The following is a quote from the Baptist. He has just finished saying we are saved “by grace through faith” and that we put on Christ the moment we are saved by grace through faith. He then said, “…You’ll want to be baptized because you are saved. I put on a ring because I did get married….”

Have you heard this one? It is similar to other arguments, I know, but am not able to put my finger on it right now….

He may also say that a person is married whether he wears a ring, or not (therefore, in his mind, excluding baptism completely). He says that ring shows the world he is married, and baptism shows the world you are saved.

Suggestions???

 

Reply To Baptist Charges And Challenges(Hopefully the remarks below in answer to this good brother will be helpful to our readers as well. . Should the material generate other questions on these or related matters, feel free to contact brother Hafley at the email address at the end of this article).

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Editor’s note: What we have in this article is the response by Larry Ray Hafley to a Mr. Charles Ellis of the Baptist Church. If this were a formal debate, we would publish both sides of the discussion. However, this is not intended to be in such a format, even though Mr. Ellis is directed and quoted in the article. Our purpose in publishing this is to show the inadequacy of Baptist Doctrine in light of the Word of God. If there is a need for any of this article to be challenged, then we will deal with that as it occurs. We commend the article to you for your personal and private study. May God help us all to know His will and do it.

I. “How Can I Be Sure?”

Mr. Ellis is correct about two things. First, we can be sure that we have been saved. Jesus said, “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). When we have done what the Lord said, we can know that we are saved (John 8:32). We can know that we have been forgiven of our past, or alien, sins. Obviously, if one may forget that he was forgiven, cleansed of his past sins, he must have known it to begin with, for one cannot forget what he has never known (2 Pet. 1:9). John wrote “that ye may know that ye have eternal life” (1 John 5:13; Cf. 1:7; 2:3-5, 25). Second, feelings, indeed, may be deceitful. Jacob “felt,” believed, that Joseph was dead (Genesis 37:33-35). Joseph was alive. Jacob’s feelings that Joseph was dead did not make it so. Saul truly “thought” that he “ought” to persecute the name of Christ, the disciples of Christ (Acts 26:9-11). His feelings, his murdering of the saints “in all good conscience,” did not make it right (John 16:1-3; Acts 23:1; 1 Timothy 1:13).

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